The same thing can be said of FoW I think,,,,

[CA$H]

Read this, but replace Bolt Action with Flames of War, and Warlord Games with BattleFront....


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[Matt Varnish]

Can't, blocked from work .. just like the Battlefront Site

[Joyous_Oblivion]

Yup, almost word for word it works for FoW.

Say what everyone will about GW, maybe their policy of changing things up the way the do actually works best? Definitely doesn't lead to stagnation.

[Matt Varnish]

Chess needs an update. We feel to freshen things up, knights go four squares now and rooks can hop over pawns.

[RKelly]

Chess needs an update.  We feel to freshen things up,  knights go four squares now and rooks can hop over pawns.

Touché.

[Twinlinked]

the "makers" of chess don't need to worry about model sales though,

I have had people tell me that they don't expect there will be a "V4" of FoW rules because they think the current rules are good enough,

I expect there will be, just to sell more books and models, maybe V4 will have a Early LW and a Late LW..

A.

[Matt Varnish]

You know, the rules are pretty much fine, except the scoring / missions. Its the inbalance from new books to old. But its still fine.. no one in Ottawa is super hardcore and only runs the top meta lists, which is a contrast to the days of WFB and 40k where there was a lot more net-listing. Besides, I am glad they are putting in work on Moderns, which is a time period I prefer to WW2.. probably because I grew up over there seeing all this stuff happening around me.
It was funny, every time they had a scramble exercise, called "Snowball" to see if all staff can get to base in X minutes, it would always happen at 3 or 4 am. You KNEW it was something "for real" if it was at any other time.. so Libya Crisis, the day that idiot flew his Cessna into Red Square, and the day a french Mirage pilot bailed out of a smoking cockpit only for the empty plane to continue on Autopilot towards East Germany........

[Joyous_Oblivion]

Flames of war rules are fine. The game is just lacking new stuff. It was bound to happen for a game set I. A specific period of time and having to stay within historical limits.

My point about GW/Mantic/Battlefront isn't comparable to chess as while they are both 'games' none are anywhere close to being relevant to the other (chess v the others). Chess is a set game with no options. Some people love it, I got bored of it within a dozen games.

I'd love to see real numbers at some point because I'm willing to bet Games Workshop as an entity is still vastly outselling all others combined. And while we bitch about GW non-stop...they still make amazing models (some peoples tastes vary yes) and are made of some of the best materials models can be made out of (soft plastic).

My point was more about comparison than anything else. Looking at all the other games we play the only ones I see having a lasting ability are Warmahordes and possibly, maybe...Kings of War. If they keep new products coming and start improving their model ranges.

It's funny this whole convo got started since I'm starting a month of night shifts (see painting every night) and just got a whole whack of Flames of war models lol. Trying to force myself to do up at least one unit this month amidst all the other mess of models in my queue (Twilight Kin army for October tourney).

[Twinlinked]

KoW has done well to capitalize on and embrace the huge number of WHFB models out there, %75-%80 of which have rules in the Mantic world. This should manage to get people to start playing their game, it interesting that an email came out saying they had a 30 person tournament and it was the biggest KoW tourney ever..

The concern is where the revenue comes from, if everyone already has an army (or 3) and everyone buys the rule book, what new sales are they going to see? Codex creep happens because good reules drive model sales so it will be interesting to see what Mantic does if KoW has a strong player base in a years time.

A.

[Matt Varnish]

I bet you a KOW Sci FI army that they are working on some dystopian future setting... war-yammer50k!

[Mike_A]

I think this is actually the normal case for Historical wargames, Flames of War has really been the exception. Most games just release one book, or sometimes 3-4 and then that is the game. It's not even common for figures and rules to be made by the same company. There was a decade between release of DBA and people were still playing it.

Also there is a ton of different versions of chess:

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I don't really feel that FoW has any huge balance issues that I care about. The points for winning missions is a fair one, but that only matters in tournaments that I don't really play in any more. Lists are not really unbalanced if people agree to use the same books or set of books, so don't really see that as a problem either. I feel like it wasn't long ago that people were complaining that late war was being messed up because books were coming out to fast?

Thanks;
Mike

[CA$H]

I'm down for Warmachine any time....

That and KoW is enough 28mm for me!

[Diragi]

Chess needs an update.  We feel to freshen things up,  knights go four squares now and rooks can hop over pawns.

[LIKE]. you need to keep Tristan's ADD sufficed or he gets crabby.

edit: It's not like Battlefront has not put out a decent amount of new models (whereas a lot of previous books just recycled existing ones in different combinations). For example AIW, Vietnam river boats, Pershings, EEEEW (aka WWI), etc...

[Diragi]

I bet you a KOW Sci FI army that they are working on some dystopian future setting... war-yammer50k!

It does annoy me that Mantic hasn't had much of an original thought so far... Bloodbowl/40k/WFBH. An Infinity / Dystopian like stuff is going to be next.

[Twinlinked]

I don't mind that KoW feels like a WHFB reboot, it is basically exactly what I was looking for..

A.

[Matt Varnish]

I don't mind that KoW feels like a WHFB reboot, it is basically exactly what I was looking for..

A.

agreed

[Joyous_Oblivion]

I don't mind that KoW feels like a WHFB reboot, it is basically exactly what I was looking for..

A.

agreed

Double agreed. I think KoW hit the nail on the head and provided people a simpler fantasy game, in terms of not going balls crazy with units/models/rules like GW seemed to escalate into as fantasy transitioned from 6th-7th-8th. Not every army needs a 'big' thing. Forcing it into every army sort of makes them less special. Play Empire because you love a colourful army designed to work together, play elves for a small elite army, orcs for strong horde etc etc. at the end, every fantasy army was just a re skinned version of the others. Everyone had everything and while they were aesthetically different, they were all the same.

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