So i have added some HB guns to deal with dug in infantry

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So i have added some HB guns to deal with dug in infantry

Post  Twinlinked on Thu Sep 24, 2015 11:03 am

So based on my horribly bad showing (although great time) at Nationals I have take some advise and looking at picking up some assault guns.

I am looking at fielding 3 StuHs with possibly a 4th for 1900 point games.

The thing is i can build these as StuHs (ROF2, AT 10, FP 2+, HB) or i can build them as STUGs (ROF2, AT 11, FP 3+, not HB)

What i was wondering was whether there was any circumstances where i would want them to be STUGs?

The STuHs are wayyyyyyy better at killing dug in infantry then the StuGs and shooting non-dug in infantry i may use the main, gun or i may use MGs, but still the StuH is far superior,

is there something i am missing, or is it just that if the Stu is the only AT in your amy you may want to got for the AT11?

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Re: So i have added some HB guns to deal with dug in infantry

Post  Diragi on Thu Sep 24, 2015 12:03 pm

Twinlinked wrote:is there something i am missing, or is it just that if the Stu is the only AT in your amy you may want to got for the AT11?

Well with only StuHs you are vulnerable to Tigers and Churchills
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Re: So i have added some HB guns to deal with dug in infantry

Post  Glitch on Thu Sep 24, 2015 12:46 pm

Aren't they the same points? It's pretty much an issue of what you want them to accomplish in your army? I like H's, but I also usually run dedicated anti-tank along side of them.
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Re: So i have added some HB guns to deal with dug in infantry

Post  Twinlinked on Thu Sep 24, 2015 1:08 pm

Diragi wrote:
Twinlinked wrote:is there something i am missing, or is it just that if the Stu is the only AT in your amy you may want to got for the AT11?

Well with only StuHs you are vulnerable to Tigers and Churchills

Right , i can see the AT11 being maybe a good idea if you dont have any other AT, was just wondering if there was a concensus that when you have other AT the StuH is the way to go,

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Re: So i have added some HB guns to deal with dug in infantry

Post  Twinlinked on Thu Sep 24, 2015 1:09 pm

Desert Rat wrote:Aren't they the same points? It's pretty much an issue of what you want them to accomplish in your army? I like H's, but I also usually run dedicated anti-tank along side of them.

yup same points (0 point upgrade)

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Re: So i have added some HB guns to deal with dug in infantry

Post  Diragi on Thu Sep 24, 2015 1:21 pm

Twinlinked wrote:
Diragi wrote:
Twinlinked wrote:is there something i am missing, or is it just that if the Stu is the only AT in your amy you may want to got for the AT11?

Well with only StuHs you are vulnerable to Tigers and Churchills

Right , i can see the AT11 being maybe a good idea if you dont have any other AT, was just wondering if there was a concensus that when you have other AT the StuH is the way to go,

A.

Here is the problem with other tanks though... 3 StuHs in MW are 510 pts; and take the same slot at tank-hunters so you can't fill out your org with cheap Marders or whatever. So then you will need to look at taking another 500 pt option (Tiger / 3 Panzers) or maybe a 2 Brummbar platoon (though these are meh in v3).

I actually went with neither; Nebs are ok for locking down Ferdinands / Tigers / etc... and some Pak 36s to counter Russian hordes.


Last edited by Diragi on Thu Sep 24, 2015 1:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: So i have added some HB guns to deal with dug in infantry

Post  Twinlinked on Thu Sep 24, 2015 1:24 pm

Trackin,

I guess if it is the only slot you get then you have to compromise,

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Re: So i have added some HB guns to deal with dug in infantry

Post  Diragi on Thu Sep 24, 2015 1:45 pm

Well that's using the Panzergrenadiercompanie list (from Eastern Front). Not sure what other MW book has them -- and in LW you might have to pick up Italy books.

http://www.wwpd.net/2014/06/the-wonderful-world-of-stuh-42.html
Capabilities

The StuH 42 performs significantly better than the StuG G against gun teams at long range, mainly artillery pieces or anti-tank guns.

We can also see that it is marginally better against light armored vehicles (less than FA 5), but worse against medium to heavy armored vehicles (FA 6 and greater).

While most of us knew the StuH 42 is better than the StuG III G against unarmored targets, I think many of us underestimated exactly how much better the StuH 42 is. The difference, at least to me, is quite staggering.

Analysis

The StuH 42 is an unarmored target killing machine. While it can still perform AT duties in a pinch, the numbers show us that this unit is best deployed as a support platoon to a list with other Anti-Tank capabilities. Against other common late war foes - like the T-34/85 and Sherman 76mm with Front Armor 7 - the StuH 42 is greatly outmatched.

In the German arsenal, there are few other units as cost-effective at dismembering dug-in infantry teams as the StuH 42, while also being able to resist medium AT fire. The Sturmtiger is technically more proficient per shot and certainly more survivable, but suffers from slow rate of fire, low platoon count, and poor availability.

The StuH 42 is not seen in as many company diagrams as the StuG G assault gun, but when available I highly recommend it. Fortress Italy brings StuH 42s (and their poor man's cousin, the Semovente 105/25) back to the fore front with wide availability across nearly all Axis lists. Even better, the StuH 42 platoon is a Herman Goering platoon, so they'll automatically get a re-roll on platoon morale checks! Buy some and get them in your list! (Or if you're lazy like me, just chop down the barrel on any existing StuG G - muzzle breaks were commonly left off production vehicles to save on war resources.)
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Re: So i have added some HB guns to deal with dug in infantry

Post  Twinlinked on Thu Sep 24, 2015 2:07 pm

good analysis,

i'm sold,

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Re: So i have added some HB guns to deal with dug in infantry

Post  Matt Varnish on Thu Sep 24, 2015 3:39 pm

Same.  On the semoventes that is.. I have four of them waiting for paint
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Re: So i have added some HB guns to deal with dug in infantry

Post  Twinlinked on Thu Sep 24, 2015 3:51 pm

those the MW monster Semonventes?

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Re: So i have added some HB guns to deal with dug in infantry

Post  Matt Varnish on Fri Sep 25, 2015 12:00 am

Yes they are mwm for italians.. but regular force for german lists out of fortress italy.
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